Biblical Church Discipline

Dear Ones:

The following message was posted by Mrs. Jamie Lonidier on the Grace Baptist Church Facebook page at 10:19 AM July 15. I have posted her message in its entirety for anyone who has not yet read it. My response is below her post. I apologize in advance for the length, but these are complex matters deserving more than a cursory explanation.

Bro. Tom



POSTING:

To all of you whom have inquired I am fine. I did something that went totally against what I believed to be right and just can't seem to forgive myself for it. I have betrayed my daughter and it grieves me everyday. Both her and I did something out of necessity instead of heart. She stood before a congregration to be humiliated to please a pastor and a dad and it has caused much anger and bitterness in her. I stood with her thinking the whole time of grabbing her hand and walking out, but was to much of a coward to do so. From day one I never agreed with her being publicly humilited and this has really broken my heart. Everyone of you have been extremly accepting and nice and this is greatily appreciated it I love you all. Also the majority of you have questioned as to why we would allow her to do this. I am comforted in knowing I am not the only one who thought this was totally wrong and uneccessary. The option was to do this or be voted out of Church either way it was going to be a public humiliation so she choose to face her accusers and be done with it. She did not want to put anyone in a position that could possiably divide the Church. I can not bring myself to go back to Grace at this time for I have no peace and bring with me a spirit that is hurting that dosen't belong there. The night the little Looney boy got up there and spoke on pride it really touched my heart and praised God saying this is my problem. I went to the altar and poured my heart out asking to please rid me of this pride and give me peace on what had transpired, but to my dissappointed it was not to be. I still feel like what was done was totally wrong. I always felt when a action does more harm than good you need to ask why it was done. I know there is another in the same situation and I ask that ya'll please pray about it before making her do this. She needs support and love not humiliation and hope things can be handle differently so as not to lose another one. God has truely blessed me with a husband who I think also sees now how it did more harm than good and is supported me in my decision on not going back. I read my bible and pray at home and worship my Lord. I will not attend another Church this is my husband wishes and so my church is at home. I must say it has been going well for I do spend more time in my Bible now. I feel we all need to remember that the Church is not whom we will answear to and so does not need to be asked the forgiveness of it's people. We answear to the Lord he is our savior and his forgiveness is the only one we need. Once that is done the church will forgive because they are a family who love the Lord. Remember we are all sinners is there anyone out there who wants to stand before a congregration annouce your hidden sin so all can stare and throw that stone I think not. Where are my daughters accusers? I it going to be awhile for me to forgive myself for betraying my daughter, but in the mean time I am going to be here to spport my daughter and love her with all my heart.

Please my door is always open and you are all welcome to come by maybe we can pray together for Gods wisdom in this I am open. You have been a wonderful family to worship with and I love you all.

Mrs. Jamie



RESPONSE:

It’s a little hard to begin to answer this one. Obviously Jamie has been deeply affected by both her daughter’s actions and the church’s response. It is now and will always be the responsibility of the church as her brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for her and to support her through difficult times, and we will continue to do so.

Even as we acknowledge our respect and love for her, there are things in this letter that must be addressed. To ensure that I am quoting correctly, I will post her letter in pieces, addressing some of those concerns as we go. My comments will be italics.


To all of you whom have inquired I am fine. I did something that went totally against what I believed to be right and just can't seem to forgive myself for it. I have betrayed my daughter and it grieves me everyday. Both her and I did something out of necessity instead of heart.

Jamie, I was very proud of you when you helped us convince Lizzie to take the step of public confession and restoration. I thought you must understand the actions taken were in the best interest of the not only the church and the Lord, but of Lizzie and a yet unborn child. I’m sure your influence was critical in bringing Lizzie to come forward, and as your pastor, I thank you for it. You did do right, as I will explain. You have no reason to forgive yourself.

She stood before a congregration to be humiliated to please a pastor and a dad and it has caused much anger and bitterness in her. I stood with her thinking the whole time of grabbing her hand and walking out, but was to much of a coward to do so. From day one I never agreed with her being publicly humilited and this has really broken my heart.

Jamie, this had nothing to do with the desires of either her pastor or her dad. This was a biblical process commanded by the Lord Jesus Christ and executed by His local church. For memory’s sake, let’s review it again.

In Matthew 18:15-17, the Lord Jesus laid the groundwork for discipline in the local church. It is a simple process, designed to deal with sin in the body and keep private things private. This process is formalized in the church by-laws, Article IV, Discipline of a Member. The by-laws are explicit concerning the process to be followed. They are line-by-line almost identical to Matthew 18:15-17, "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as a heathen man and a publican."

This is the process that it typically followed. However, there is an exception. This is listed in Section 6 of the by-laws, which states, "No matter may be heard by the Discipline Committee or the church unless the steps outlined in Section 2 and 3 have been taken, except in the case of a public offense."

If there is an exception for a public offense, then there must be something special about those types of sins. This is most easily seen in 1 Corinthians 5:9-13. There was a particular sin within the congregation, a case of fornication, that was commonly and publicly known. Paul, in advising the congregation, told them explicitly in verse 11, "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." And then, in verse 13, "but them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person." There was no discussion, no need to pray about it. In the event of a public sin, there was to be public censure. As you put it, they were to be "voted out of the church".

The reason that the first two steps of the discipline process are skipped (by the way, we did not skip them) in the event of a public sin is that the reproach is already public. The actions of a member have dragged the church and her Lord through the mud and the damage is done. Any action from this point must be taken such that everyone aware of the sin is aware of the response. It is the same as if I offended a member personally. What if I recognized my error and confessed and repented to God, but not to the member? There is clearly no reconciliation. In the event of a public sin, such as fornication, there must be some effort on the part of the offender to reconcile with the offended. You can make the argument that Lizzie confessed and repented before God. This is wonderful and necessary. But God is not the only offended party. Every Christian (not just members of Grace) is affected by the sins of the brethren. Therefore, in such a casse, confession and repentance before the body are also necessary. It is the body of Christ, the church, that God has given to hold us accountable while we walk this earth.

In Lizzie’s case, this never came before the church for judgement, because she chose to confess and seek restoration from the body without making that step necessary. She did the right thing, although her actions since make it appear her motive may not have been genuine repentance.

Now, several times in the course of this letter you mention public humiliation. The point is not humiliation, but rather humility and restoration. To confess sin before a group, even a group that loves and cares for you, is never an easy thing. Most of us realize that even asking forgiveness from a spouse or family member requires some humility. The truth is that God blesses a humble heart. A humble heart is never humiliated. Only the proud suffer that. One who is genuinely broken over their sin will not be offended by confession and cleansing.


Everyone of you have been extremly accepting and nice and this is greatily appreciated it I love you all.

As you may recall, on the night that Lizzie came before the church, the longest message was to the body. As Lizzie had done her part in asking forgiveness, it was now our part to extend forgiveness and to restore the erring member (2 Cor. 2:7-8). We are commanded to love one another, just as we are commanded to hold one another accountable. The purpose of discipline is not punishment, but restoration. It is always done in love.


Also the majority of you have questioned as to why we would allow her to do this. I am comforted in knowing I am not the only one who thought this was totally wrong and uneccessary.

Anyone who still does not understand should read the comments above carefully and prayerfully study the Scriptures given.


The option was to do this or be voted out of Church either way it was going to be a public humiliation so she choose to face her accusers and be done with it.

If Lizzie came to "get it over with", she came for the wrong reason. As for the humiliation, I’ve already addressed that.


She did not want to put anyone in a position that could possiably divide the Church.

Only sin (pride) can divide a church (Proverbs 13:10).

I can not bring myself to go back to Grace at this time for I have no peace and bring with me a spirit that is hurting that dosen't belong there. The night the little Looney boy got up there and spoke on pride it really touched my heart and praised God saying this is my problem. I went to the altar and poured my heart out asking to please rid me of this pride and give me peace on what had transpired, but to my dissappointed it was not to be. I still feel like what was done was totally wrong. I always felt when a action does more harm than good you need to ask why it was done.

One must be very careful passing judgment on the results of a biblical process. You are assuming that because some are experiencing distress and discomfort, the process must be flawed. God frequently does things that disturb us, and always for our good and His glory. There are many things that might cause us to lose our peace, but obeying His clearly revealed Word is not one of them.


I know there is another in the same situation and I ask that ya'll please pray about it before making her do this. She needs support and love not humiliation and hope things can be handle differently so as not to lose another one.

God’s Word hasn’t changed, and his church dare not change it. Public sin will be dealt with publicly in love and humility with the purpose of restoration.


God has truely blessed me with a husband who I think also sees now how it did more harm than good and is supported me in my decision on not going back. I read my bible and pray at home and worship my Lord. I will not attend another Church this is my husband wishes and so my church is at home.

It is commendable that you have chosen to submit to your husband in this matter.

I must say it has been going well for I do spend more time in my Bible now. I feel we all need to remember that the Church is not whom we will answear to and so does not need to be asked the forgiveness of it's people. We answear to the Lord he is our savior and his forgiveness is the only one we need. Once that is done the church will forgive because they are a family who love the Lord.

Here is the appropriate point to be reminded of the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:23-24, "Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift." Jesus’ teaching is clear. There is no point in trying to bring a sacrifice to God while you are at odds with your brother. Clearly we are accountable to one another. God’s forgiveness is not all we need. We must also have peace with our brethren.


Remember we are all sinners is there anyone out there who wants to stand before a congregration annouce your hidden sin so all can stare and throw that stone I think not. Where are my daughters accusers? I it going to be awhile for me to forgive myself for betraying my daughter, but in the mean time I am going to be here to spport my daughter and love her with all my heart.

Interesting thought. In 1 Timothy 5:20, the Bible says, "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others may fear." One of the purposes of the discipline process is to help others realize that they, too, will be held accountable. That realization should and will result in holier lives.

Jamie, the things that were done were done Biblically, lovingly and humbly. There was not then, nor is there now, any spirit of animosity or accusation. Lizzie chose to reject the clear teachings of the Word of God concerning her relationships and her conduct, and to do in a very public manner. It is the responsibility of the church to correct erring members (Gal. 6:1). In correcting Lizzie, we proved our love. It is the responsibility of us all to love Lizzie and to help her and others in similar situations, but that does not include supporting, condoning, or encouraging an openly sinful lifestyle.


Please my door is always open and you are all welcome to come by maybe we can pray together for Gods wisdom in this I am open. You have been a wonderful family to worship with and I love you all.

Mrs. Jamie

It is unfortunate that this had to be played out in such a public forum. I had hoped the issue was properly dealt with and done. I am deeply saddened by the apparent misunderstanding of and reluctance to engage in what is clearly a biblical mandate. I strongly encourage anyone who is still struggling with this issue to prayerfully consider the Scripture passages mentioned. In the event of continued confusion, I will be happy to meet with you and discuss it.

Pray for Jamie and her family.

Just a servant,

Bro. Tom